The Infinity Stone Podcast continues its journey through the Marvel Cinematic Universe with the second big team-up film Avengers: Age of Ultron. Watch or listen along to find out if we think they nailed it or bit off more than they could chew.
NOTE: We again suffered some technical difficulties in recording the final 15 minutes of this show. A lot of the video is choppy/skippy, but usable, so please forgive the difficulties while you watch/listen to that section. This did cause us to lose the rankings sections of the podcast. Also, we believe we’ve identified the issue so it shouldn’t be a problem again.
Watch along with Andy and Matt as they discuss (time stamps for video. Audio might be off by a minute or so):
- A speedster visit. [1:59]
- How later viewings of Age of Ultron differ from the original viewing.
- How well do we think this movie juggled all its characters, stories, and the need for a sequel to top its predecessor?
- Joss Whedon’s ability to deliver big action set-pieces.
- Best sequences. [26:49]
- Biggest flaws.
- What we think of Ultron as a villain.
- Trivia. [52:05]
- Who had the better Quicksilver, the MCU or X-Men?
- Should Marvel do R-rated superhero movies? Note: this is the choppy section. [1:00:59]
- End credits (not choppy) [1:15:32]
You can listen to the audio version of the podcast here:
The Infinity Stone Podcast – Episode 7 – Avengers: Age of Ultron
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Rankings
Here are the rankings we tried twice to record on the podcast but failed to do so:
Andy |
Matt |
|
| 11 | The Incredible Hulk | Thor: The Dark World |
| 10 | Thor: The Dark World | The Incredible Hulk |
| 9 | Iron Man 2 | Iron Man 2 |
| 8 | Iron Man 3 | Captain America: The First Avenger |
| 7 | Iron Man | Iron Man |
| 6 | Thor | Thor |
| 5 | Avengers: Age of Ultron | Iron Man 3 |
| 4 | Captain America: The First Avenger | Avengers: Age of Ultron |
| 3 | Guardians of the Galaxy | Guardians of the Galaxy |
| 2 | Captain America: The Winter Soldier | The Avengers |
| 1 | The Avengers | Captain America: The Winter Soldier |
Next Episode:
Tune in next week as we officially end Phase Two and begin Phase Three of the Marvel Cinematic Universe with Ant-Man and Captain America: Civil War.
The Infinity Stone Podcast 
I was all ready to come in guns blazing to defend this one, but you pretty much summed up my feelings on it. I like Age of Ultron, and I think it plays better on a second or third viewing. The movie starting off in media res doesn’t help the perception that it’s overly busy, and it requires you to fill in the gaps between the past few movies and this one, making it slightly disorienting at first. Streucker’s big motivational speech to his troops followed by him quickly and quietly admitting he’s going to surrender is a good joke that lands well, and the movie quickly improves from there (although as a character, Streucker’s potential is ultimately wasted).
The biggest flaw with the movie is that too many characters have some sort of secret, from Tony and Bruce with the creation of Ultron, to whatever Ultron’s actual motivations are, to Clint’s family, to what Thor’s vision is all about, and aside from Clint with his family, the movie just kind of pays lip service to what those secrets all actually *mean*. I don’t need a movie to necessarily hold my hand and explain in layman’s terms what’s going on every step of the way, but there are definitely a few moments where some more obligatory exposition would have helped. Especially the Thor/Vision activation scene, which comes off almost as nonsensical.
But yeah, there is a lot to like about this movie, and this cast plays very well off of each other.
Also, I can’t decide whether Ruffalo is really, really good as Bruce Banner or really, really bad as Bruce Banner, but either way he’s incredibly entertaining as Bruce Banner and I suppose that’s enough.
My rankings:
1. Guardians of the Galaxy
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
3. The Avengers
4. The Avengers: Age of Ultron
5. Iron Man 3
6. Thor
7. Captain America: The First Avenger
8. Iron Man
9. Iron Man 2
10. Thor: The Dark World
11. The Incredible Hulk
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As much as I’d love an R-rated Maximum Carnage run, age gating Spider-Man is a stupid idea and a correctly done Cletus Kasady isn’t suitable for a young audience so… oh well. I’ll get over it. R should be limited to Deadpool, Moon Knight, the Punisher, and my idea for a woefully misguided Great Lakes Avengers slasher flick.
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This speaks to a difference between comics and movies. You can do darker stories with some characters because there can be multiple titles releasing 10-12 issues a year. So you can do different tones without shutting people out completely. But with movies, there’s maybe one every few years for a finite amount (yes, even in this era there will be a finite number of Spider-Man movies). So to shut out an entire generation for half of their childhood because you wanted to try a darker Spidey would be franchise malpractice.
Also, one of the worst things comics ever did was to shut out children from their sales model, which ended up crippling them as their readers started to age out of the medium without another generation to replace them. One would hope movies would learn from that mistake, especially since one of the biggest successes of these movies (and even the ones before them) was introducing these characters to a new generation.
I agree a bit about your list of characters, although my son would be heartbroken if they made a Moon Knight movie he couldn’t see (he’s been into the character since he saw a few pictures of him. Because that’s often all it takes). That said, he’d probably be old enough by the time one came out at this rate.
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I suppose it’s possible they do something Carnage-like if the Venom movie spawns sequels.
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Do you think Kraven’s Last Hunt would be too dark for Marvel?
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No. I think it could comfortably be done in this universe.
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The problem with doing Fearful Symmetry (aka Kraven’s Last Hunt) as a movie is that it only works with all the years of encounters between Kraven and Spider-Man. When Spidey encounters Kraven in part 1 of the story he doesn’t see him as a legitimate threat because of their history (“Oh, it’s only Kraven. He’ll take me back to his lair, rant and rave long enough for me to get free, I’ll be home in time for dinner.”).
Sony/Marvel would likely introduce Kraven and do KLH in the same movie, which misses the whole point of JMD’s story (which was originally an idea for Batman and the Joker). In KLH Kraven is an old man who is ready to give up on life but wants to complete the one hunt that has always eluded him before he dies
In order to do it justice, Kraven would have to be introduced in a Spidey movie and be easily defeated (maybe like the pre-Rhino at the start of ASM2), appear in 2-3 more movies in the same way, and then they could finally do KLH as its own movie. I just don’t see Sony (or even Marvel) taking the time to do this.
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I think you could adjust it so that Kraven is a man with a lot of pride who has been publicly shamed somehow (maybe proven that much of his late hunting career is fradualent or something, or believed to be). So his motivation isn’t to overcome years of humiliation at Spidey’s hands, but rather a major, recent humiliation. Wouldn’t be the same, but could still honour it.
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Maybe, but then you’re just getting further away from the story’s original intent, where Kraven and Spidey have all this history. The impact of the original story is greater because we know that Kraven is a Ditko villain who’s been around forever, that Spidey has *always* defeated and has never been that much of a threat. And suddenly he manages to do what no other villain has done – defeat and replace Spidey (he literally calls himself Spidey’s “superior” – suck it, Doc Ock).
Plus Spidey is dead and buried for 2 of the 6 issues of the original story. Part of what makes the story work is that we know that Spidey isn’t really dead, but it’s Kraven running around and we don’t know how it’s going to resolve. Would Marvel really do a movie with Spidey not onscreen for 30-60 minutes? I’m not sure how they would do the issue where Peter is digging his way out seeing Ned, Gwen, Uncle Ben, his parents, a giant spider, etc – pretty trippy for a MCU movie.
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I enjoyed this movie. I found it incredibly fun. The biggest thing I had a problem with Age of Ultron, was it being a little bit confusing, which from the looks of it is a common thing for the people who watch it for the first time. Plus, to be fair, it wasn’t like I completely didn’t understand what was going on, but most likely if I rewatched it now, I would’ve picked up on more things.
The other thing that I wasn’t really a fan of was Bruce/Natasha “ship”. I actually didn’t mind that they decided to make their relationship more of a focus in this movie, since it actually makes sense, because they are the “loners” of the whole group, so them bonding over that fact was good IMO. The problem I had with it ultimately, was that I felt them becoming each other’s love interests was a little unnatural, and it didn’t help that the actors didn’t have a lot of chemistry in that way, at least in my eyes. I think the reason why they decided to do it was because they wanted to give Bruce/Hulk more content, since he was only a part of the movie in the last Avengers movie alongside Hawkeye (which was probably also the reason he got that much of content), so I don’t really blame them. It wasn’t movie ending either way, and I did still enjoy some scenes they both had together.
I pretty much agree with you both in terms of them doing an R-rated movie. The most important thing they should focus on is doing a good movie, not cartering to a certain audience. And if they feel ithat in order to do so they should make the movie R-rated, then they should go for it (but still focus on making most of the movies family-friendly, since it would be stupid to age block franchises like Spider-Man, Thor, etc.).
Overall I found the movie really good, and I can’t wait to see what the next movies have in store.
My updated Movie Rankings:
1.Captain America: The Winter Soldier
2.The Avengers
3.Guardians of the Galaxy
4.The Avengers: Age of Ultron
5.Iron Man 3
6.Thor
7.Iron Man
8.Captain America: The First Avenger
9.Thor: The Dark World
10.Iron Man 2
11.The Incredible Hulk
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In the first version of us talking about this movie that was lost in the interwebs, we also discussed our issues with the Bruce/Natasha pairing. Pretty much echoed what you said here: I (Andy) liked the idea, but did not feel the chemistry, did not like that it seemed to alter core aspects of Natasha to make it work, felt more like it was about Bruce than her (Matt’s observation). Plus, I almost always dislike superhero stories built around the hero trying to stop being a hero. Because that’s not what I’m here for.
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I always have a weird feeling when I think about watching this movie. I know there is good stuff in it, but I just don’t have the excitement to watch it as the first Avengers. Then after I watch it I think “This is a lot better than I thought.”
“Age of Ultron” was a Marvel event that happened in almost every comic a year (?) before this movie, so that’s where the title came from. I only read the Spider-Man tie-in issue of it (and by read it I mean I listened to a summary in a podcast because I was boycotting the book during the “Doc Ock kills Spidey and takes over his body” arc) – it made zero sense and it didn’t seem to have anything in common with the movie’s story (although someone who read The Avengers at the time can correct me).
Is it just me or does it feel like the 2nd film for a superhero team has to have the team either (a) be separated, (b) turn against each other, or (c) both. I guess there isn’t a big sample size, but it just feels like the first film has to introduce the characters and get them as a team, and the second one has to shake up that team dynamic and have them work towards getting it back.
Although Spader has been around forever, I was watching him in The Blacklist when I saw this in the theater, so I thought of this film as “The Avengers vs. Raymond Reddington”. Red would have fared better than Ultron.
This film almost seemed like a love letter to Hawkeye, or an apology to Jeremy Renner (or both). Of all the Avenges he seems to come off the best – he’s the only one that doesn’t get their mind affected by Wanda (“I’ve done the whole mind control thing before” line got a big laugh) so he’s the one that has to take command to get them to a safe place to recover. And when he gets there he doesn’t have to do any healing or self-reflection – all the other Avengers are “broken” at that point. He is given a wife and kids (which was weird because after A1 a lot of people thought he and Natasha would get together – kudos to Marvel for keeping that platonic), a home, making him the only one that is able to take off the costume when he’s off the clock and live a normal life. And as mentioned on the podcast, his speech to Wanda is great, especially how he acknowledges that it’s ridiculous for him to be on the Avengers when all he can do is shoot a bow and arrow. And he gets the antagonistic/rivalry relationship with Pietro with one of the biggest laughs where he jokes about killing Pietro and no one would know. Hawkeye is the MVP of this movie (of the main Avengers characters at least).
I agree about the Vision – I was so glad they “created” the character in this film (was this a surprise to anyone else? I remember in the theater having no idea the character would appear in the film) but the way they do it make no sense. They mention this in CW but Tony (and Bruce, but mostly Tony) is to blame for the deaths of everyone that Ultron killed (those killed by the Hulk’s rampage, the Sokovians, Strucker, and unseen others offscreen). So after they mess up and create Ultron, they decide to try again? (What’s the definition of insanity again?) Maybe it would have been better if they had captured the cradle, discovered that the body was going to come to life no matter what but without Ultron’s consciousness, and then debated whether to let it happen or stop it, with Thor still eventually showing up to zap it with lightning to take the choice out of everyone’s hands? (although that sounds like too close to a pro-choice/pro-life debate which Marvel probably doesn’t want to get into).
Even though I’m not a big Vision fan, I geeked out when he (a) phased his arms through a robot and then solidified them, (b) used the mind stone to project a beam, and (c) picked up Wanda to save her.
Strange to remember that Hulk and Thor disappear after this film and don’t return until Ragnorok. I think a reporter asked one of the Russo’s (or maybe the writers) why those characters weren’t in CW and they said “Because they’d both be on Cap’s side and the battle would be over in less-than 5 minutes.”
In an interview that came out just last week (timing!) Whedon admitted that he had no idea what to do with Thanos. So considering that the Thanos and the infinity gems -er- stones were foced onto him in this film, maybe it was for the best that he left after this movie.
A mid-credits scene but no post-credits scene? This was unheard of with MCU films at the time! (except for the Incredible Hulk, but we don’t talk about that film)
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I remember hoping in the lead up to the movie that Ultron would force Tony to prostitute himself, for a nice Less Than Zero callback. Ah well.
I was thinking the other day, wouldn’t it have made more sense if Jarvis, when Ultron attacked, hid himself in the scepter, in the mind stone that was he interfacing with? And then when they got the cradle back, Tony realizes Jarvis is in there and tries to work on putting him into Vision. Maybe it wouldn’t have made a lot more sense, but it would have made as much sense.
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